Dialog | World Class Watch Collector: John Goldberger

If you ask me who John Goldberger is, the man is the Maradona, John Lennon, the absolute legend of the watch world. He is the grand master of watch collecting. The collection of John Goldberger is extremely diverse, ranging from unique Patek Philippes to the newest Casio G-Shocks.

He is a passionate scholar, with eight watch publications under his name, all photographed and edited by himself. He is also a man of kindness and great generosity, having donated the 6 million dollar auction proceeds of his unique Rolex Daytona to children in needs. He dresses in a way that I dream of, exuding elegance and nonchalance. He is what every watch collector strives to be: classy, scholarly and understated.

Today, we are honored to have the opportunity to interview this world-renowned collector and share some of his thoughts on collecting with you. Let us experience and enjoy the irresistible charm of this Italian gentleman.

 

John Goldberger at his kitchen

 

Recommended reading time: 15 min

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Ding ding. “Let’s start around 5PM”. I received a text message from Mr. Goldberger. There was still seven hours to 5PM, but I had been quite nervous since I woke up. I watched some TED videos on how to make a good conversation, trying to pick-up some communication techniques before calling John. The first time I saw this tall man, who had the mystique of a Bond villain and the air of an Italian nobleman from a Visconti film, was at a watch auction preview in New York.

 

｜Source: Abraham Engelmark

 

He was very reserved, in contrast to the buzzing crowd around him. When I walked up to him and said hello, he did give me a big Italian smile, making the star-struck me a bit more relaxed. He showed me a vintage Longines chronograph under his exquisite cashmere Prince-of-Wales plaid jacket sleeve. “I’m wearing a vintage chronograph made for the Israeli Air Force. The crown is replaced.” John then took off his watch and pointed at the crown. Then, he showed me what a correct crown should look like. "I'm wearing a chronograph from the Israeli Air Force today with a new crown," John told me, taking off his watch and pointing to the crown. Immediately after, he told me what the correct crown should look like.

That was the first time I met him. He also shared some of his collection and the legendary iPad. That iPad serves as an archive for the watches that John has seen in the past 40 years. You can name any watch. He will find it in his iPad, and tell you which auction or which dealer the watch came from.

 

 

John Goldberger is an amiable man. In this interview, he shared both his knowledge of watches and his life stories. He was chatting with me over the phone and sending me emails and pictures at the same time to make me better understand the watches he was referring to. He helped me a lot in writing this article.

 

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J: John, growing up in Bologna, what was it like when you were younger?

Goldberger: Very simple. When I was younger I really enjoyed playing basketball for my schools. I graduated high school and then went to university to study design, photography and graphics. My university in Bologna was very similar to Parsons School in New York and UAL in London. My parents’ company was in electronics. My major was in more creative work, so they let me help them with logo design, product photo shoots and some graphics designs for the catalogues. Then, I moved to California with my little brother. I was playing basketball and surfing all day, also browsing the local flea markets for nice watches. My dad was a little disappointed but that’s okay. I followed my heart. [Laughs]

 

John Goldberger’s first wristwatch ever

 

J: Haha, so your father didn’t like watches?

Goldberger: My parents were more interested in collecting art. They had great passion for 16th, 17th century oil paintings and furniture. They liked to take me to see antique shows. But my father noticed that I looked a bit bored during the shows, so he told me to look at some watches. Back then, wristwatches were a lot cheaper than art, even a young boy with some pocket money could make an attempt. It was the 1970s, so many mechanical watches were even cheaper than quartz watches. Also, wristwatch collecting was a field that few cared to enter. Now that I think of it, maybe my father just wanted me to have a hobby that I could enjoy.

J: So, how did you gather information about wrist watches if you were one of the first people to get into it? There was no Internet and no books either, if I understand correctly?

Goldberger: In the beginning, there were no books and no one was doing these kinds of work. The first books were from 1982 and 1984. There was one book in Italian, and another in German named “Armbanduhren.” Some books were from Japan, which I used for picture references as I don’t know Japanese.

 

Goldberger’s old watch catalogue collection

 

I made many trips to Switzerland to visit the manufactures and to find old catalogues. I also studied hallmarks in Switzerland. I put together a list of case makers who would stamp the caseback so you could tell which workshop or which brand made what cases. When I look back now, I feel it’s very romantic to explore, to not know what you’re buying, to always find novel things.

J: So what are some cool watches that you found during your trips? I heard you found a super rare Patek Philippe 3450 in white gold?

Goldberger: Yes, I found the 3450 in a pawn shop in Los Angeles.

 

Patek Philippe 3450 white gold

 

J: You found an only-3-known, 2 million dollar Patek Philippe in a pawn shop…

Goldberger: In the 80s, these kinds of discoveries weren’t as crazy as they sound now. I also found the 6265 Daytona in white gold. My favorite discovery is a retrograde perpetual calendar from Breguet (1936). It’s in white gold, large size, with simple design and in perfect condition. I found an old French deployant buckle for it. I also asked Hermes to make the strap.

J: How do you know it’s a perpetual calendar but not a triple calendar? Because perpetual calendars in 1936 wouldn’t have leap year indication right?

 

Breguet Retrograde Perpetual Calendar

 

Goldberger: It’s a good question. Actually, the little pusher in the perpetual calendar movement is different from the one in the triple calendar movement, so you could tell if you open the caseback. Breguet sent me a gift box on Christmas Day. In the box, they gave me a certificate of this vintage watch, saying that this is a retrograde perpetual calendar. In 1936, it was sold for 13500 Francs. On the certificate, it says the client who placed the order was called Monsieur Solvay, who owned one of the most important chemical factories in Europe. The archive from Breguet was very complete and beautiful. It was handwritten in the same format as the original archive from their library.

 

The archive for Goldberger’s Breguet

 

J: Do you have other Breguet watches in your collection?

Goldberger: Good vintage Breguet wristwatches are very rare. Before making military watches, Breguet only made a few pieces per year in the beginning of the 20th century. So, most of my Breguet watches are pocket watches. In the past 10 years, I gravitated towards pocket watch collecting. I don’t actually use wristwatches to tell time anyway. Also, pocket watches are more value for money than wristwatches now. You could pick up more interesting complications with less money. I think young people can wear a smart watch on the wrist, and have a complicated pocket watch in the pocket. You can take it out whenever you want to.

J: So what do you look for when you buy pocket watches?

Goldberger: I like pocket watches with a more modern feel to them. I don’t like the antique-looking ones with big onion crowns. I also enjoy Cartier with Art Deco style case, like this one in yellow gold.

 

Vintage Cartier skeletonized pocket watch

 

J: Wow, it’s a skeletonized pocket watch…

Goldberger: Yes, it has a skeletonized dial, with a minute repeater, a perpetual calendar and a split seconds complication. Cartier made two pieces. There’s another one in the Cartier museum in Paris.

J: We all know, John, that you have a special affection for Cartier. What is it about Cartier that attracts you?

Goldberger: Cartier is a very important brand for wristwatches. They were the first to make a non-round wristwatch. More than a hundred years ago, most of the wristwatches were converted from round pocket watches to military watches. Cartier came up with the first wristwatch for men: the rectangular shaped Santos. They also invented shaped watches, like the Crash, Cintree and Cloche.

Also, in the middle of the 20th century, if you wanted to buy a Cartier wristwatch, you’d have to fly to London, Paris or New York. These were the most fashionable, culturally diversified places where artists and scholars gathered. So the people who owned these Cartiers probably had very interesting lifestyles too. That was an exciting era.

 

A special shaped watch by Cartier—Pebble

 

Unique Cartier Tank Cintrée with blue indexes and hands

 

J: So, do you think Cartier re-issuing its vintage watches, is a direction for the brand?

Goldberger: I think it’s a good direction, because the brand makes good quality re-issues. The cases are well-made. The crowns, dials and hands are just right. But I never liked their complications series, because Cartier has never been famous for complicated watchmaking in its history. A good Cartier is about style, about elegance on the wrist. Also, the dials on their complicated models are very hard to read, not really classic Cartier style. The recently released Tank Chinoise and Cintree have more of the Cartier genes.

J: So besides some vintage Cartiers, do you collect watches that are not Swiss?

Goldberger: I do. I quite like Furlan Marri, manufactured in China with a Chinese quartz movement. I also like a micro brand from France, called Baltic. Their watches are very retro-looking with their own style.

J: Any independents you like?

Goldberger: I like my Laurent Ferrier. The case resembles old Longines Tre-Tacche design. Even though the secondary market prices for independents are high, I think it’s justified because these watchmakers did innovate and bring fresh air to the watch industry. The big brands are very stable, but not very innovative. I quite like Richard Mille, because he’s making something different. I love my RM016, a big curvex, black case contrasting with white numerals.

I also love the “Bubba Watson” tourbillon. The case material is quite interesting, using a magnesium-aluminum alloy. The weight is extremely light. Maybe it could float on water. But the secondary market price is maybe over a million dollars. A young collector could use a million dollars to build a pretty impressive collection, no?

 

Goldberger’s favorite RM “Bubba Watson”

 

J: So if you had to choose, vintage over modern I suppose?

Goldberger: I prefer vintage watches because I could get more from them for myself. I could study the unique history behind each watch, inspiration for the designs and thereby get behind the “why” of each watch. But, for modern, all you do is go swipe your card at the boutique, which is not fun for me.

J: So do you care about who had your vintage watch previously, since you like provenance and story?

Goldberger: Yes, provenance is important. But I don’t care as much about who had the watches as I do about the stories behind the brand, or why the original owner chose this watch, or what stories this watch had. I don’t care if the previous owner was a VIP or an actor.

J: In your new book, Time to Race, there are many stories of watches that are tied to racing, right?

 

Some books that Goldberger has published in the past, the orange one being Time to Race

 

Goldberger: My friend, Cesare Mannucci, who is the co-author of this book, has great relationships with car manufacturers and race car drivers. This book of course includes many watches with racing history, but it’s more about the stories of the drivers who wore these watches. During our interviews, some American drivers were still wearing the split-seconds chronographs they wore during the races.

J: Is it true that only drivers bought and used the split seconds chronographs back then?

Goldberger: Historically, split-seconds were also used in aviation and horse races. Nowadays, maybe some people like to have one because of its price and not its function. I think the vintage split-seconds watches have better details. The parts in the movement have a lot more handmade charm. It’s evident when you look at the levers, or the hands. A watchmaker at Patek Philippe told me that the split-seconds movement was the most difficult to set up during production.

I remember that in the 90s Patek stopped production of the Ref. 5004 for three months. Many 5004s were sent back to Geneva for repair because the split seconds function didn’t work properly.

 

A Leroy split-seconds chronograph with a WWII background

 

J: So you think a vintage split seconds chronograph is better than a modern one?

Goldberger: No, you can’t say better. Modern split seconds movements sometimes do have finer finishings, but the vintage ones have more handwork in them and feel less industrial. I’ll give you an analogy. If you look at the body of a vintage Ferrari, it’s hammered from a piece of aluminum. Modern Ferraris and Aston Martins are beautiful too, but the process is more industrial.

It’s the same with vintage split-seconds. You have to remember, before, these complicated designs had to be designed with pen and paper, not a computer. To me, the best watches come from an era without computer, with less machines involved, with less standardized production.

 

Vintage Ulysse Nardin split-seconds chronograph

 

Handmade Cartier Crash London

 

J: So, before they introduced the computer into watchmaking industry, everything had been handmade?

Goldberger: All handmade. Today we use the tooling machines to manufacture watch cases easily. When there wasn’t modern machines and computers in the watchmaking industry, platinum watches were quite rare. But now, with the help of computer and technology, platinum watches are much more common. Even Swatch made a platinum watch in the 90s.

J: Vintage platinum watches are pretty rare indeed.

Goldberger: Yes, Cartier for example, made way more platinum jewelries and watches after the integration of computers in watchmaking. Before, sometimes they did silver plating on gold watches to achieve that effect. But if you flip through the Cartier catalogue today, you will see quite a few platinum watches. At the beginning of the 20th century, only Cartier, Patek Philippe, Omega and a few Swiss brands were capable of producing platinum wristwatches.

 

Vintage Cartier in platinum

 

J: I think the premium of platinum watches was 3-5 times over a gold one?

Goldberger: Yes, right now it’s just 30-50% in some cases.

J: There’s also something else that has changed a lot, which is watch auction. I heard that the watch auctions were like an insider’s game, done behind closed doors? There wouldn’t be many people in the auction room and it would all be familiar faces. But now, an auction could have global attention and appear on mainstream media’s headlines. What do you think about the changes in watch auctions?

Goldberger: I think more people participating means more transparency in the auction market. Auction in itself is important, because it can record a lineage of history. It could help log the ownership history of a watch. Also, auctions allow the whole world to have a chance to see a historically important watch. It won’t just be from a dealer to a client, so the public can understand watch culture and history.

 

The white gold Rolex 6265 Goldberger donated to charity auction

 

J: I noticed, John, that you prefer to have your watches put in auctions instead of selling them privately. May I ask why?

Goldberger: Because auctions are fairer. I think it’s better to let every collector in the world have an equal shot, than just giving them to clients who are close with a dealer. But if I was to look for something for myself, I would prefer to do it with a dealer or go to flea markets around the world. I like to make new discoveries with dealers and finders. I like to be the first one to find the watch. I am lucky to have very good relationships with the world’s most important vintage watch dealers. But I rarely buy something from auctions, because I don’t like the feeling of competing with others. I like to buy things there and then.

J: I was wondering, how did you buy from auctions before the internet?

Goldberger: Auction houses would send me a catalogue each season. I would go through it, do some research and I would write a letter or call the auction house to let them know which lots I’d like to bid on. The internet has given young collectors easier and faster access to knowledge, but that’s not enough. To hold the watch in your hands is the most important thing.

J: That’s your advice to young collectors? To have the watch in hand; to see it in person?

Goldberger: Exactly. You need to study the watch closely, discuss it with collector friends and dealers, find information about the watch from books and the internet and find out about different details, or similarities of the same reference so that you can tell which details are period correct and which are not.

Besides that, you have to trust your own instincts. My father recommended me the two famous brands to start with: Rolex and Patek Philippe. He told me not to buy Cartiers, because those watches were for “coiffeurs” (hairdressers). But I didn’t listen to his advice, because I love the watches from Cartier.

 

A part of Goldberger’s Cartier collection

 

J: So what do you think today’s young collectors should start with?

Goldberger: If you want to start with modern, I would say Tudor Black Bay, GMT, and interesting diving watches made with cool materials such as titanium and ceramic. The Omega Speedmaster line. Omega is nice, with a good retail price. I also highly recommend Longines. I bought a modern Longines time-only with a 1940s design. It’s from their Heritage Collection, with a chronometer movement.

These modern watches that I recommend could expand into a nice vintage collection in the future as well, because they all have pretty long and interesting histories. You could find the originals of the modern remakes. These brands also have several price points for you to enter, so you could collect according to your budget and preference.

 

Goldberger’s Longines

 

J: You’ve seen so many crazy watches. So when you want to add something to your collection, would you only go for the best?

Goldberger: There’s no good or bad for me. It’s important to just wear and enjoy them. Recently, I began to collect G-Shocks. Also, safety is a concern in metropolitan European cities. I’ve been wearing more modern watches recently, like my Tudor Bronze and Laurent Ferrier. I try to leave more important vintage watches at home or at the bank.

 

Left: Tudor Black Bay 58 Bronze | Right: A wristwatch co-designed by Phillips and Laurent Ferrier

 

For vintage, I like wearing white metal Cartiers a lot. They look simple and are very understated on the wrist. The watches would be in white gold or platinum. Rare case material for the period. That’s fun for me. I also like to wear a Girad Perregaux tourbillon in titanium, which was a gift from the owner of GP, Gino Macaluso, an Italian himself, to an Italian retailer Laurent Picciotto. It’s No. 0.

 

No. 0 Girad Perregaux tourbillon in titanium

 

Also, every vintage watch is different in its own ways. It’s hard to find two identical in every aspect. For me, the best vintage watches should have the most fitting configurations. A beautiful vintage watch should consist of the hands, dial, case, pushers and crown that look the best with the reference/model. The best watch should be the one you love, not something trendy.

J: So, for watches in different conditions, do you prefer oxidized dials or perfect condition?

Goldberger: I don’t like brownish dials. I prefer watches in perfect condition, untouched, newly discovered, never worn.

 

A Rolex 6238 from 1964 that has never been worn

 

J: But different from your taste in watches, John, you like vintage clothing, you like clothes that have some patina and history to them, no?

Goldberger: I don’t care what I wear. I put on a nice watch. That’s all I care about.

Even though John says that, he’s superbly stylish, combining formal attires with vintage clothing with ease.

J: I remember in a watch video, you just picked a cheese knife and opened the caseback of a Rolex split-seconds watch. That was a multimillion dollar vintage watch. I think everyone was shocked. Do you always keep it easy and casual with these rare and expensive things?

Goldberger: Maybe, but I also opened casebacks of thousands and thousands of watches. I am pretty relaxed looking at these rare vintage watches, but I am still very respectful. Even though the watch could be rare and expensive, it’s just a watch. I think if you are too careful with an object, you would be consumed by the object. Then you would lose the chance to enjoy it.

 

Rolex split-seconds watches—12 known in total (the one on the right belongs to Goldberger)

 

I stopped talking for a moment. I seemed to understand what he meant, but maybe I didn’t. I could not help but wonder the life he had lived, which had bestowed upon him such a deep and admirable understanding of watches and style in general.

He was relaxed and serious, casual and formal at the same time. I want to know what drives him, what keeps him following his passion. I knew John had seen pretty much every watch in the world. But I still wanted to ask him what his dream watch was. It was not really about what the watch was, but more about his philosophy in collecting.

 

John Goldberger at Pitti Uomo | Source: The Rake

 

J: So, John, do you have a dream watch?

Goldberger: I’ve always been a sci-fi movie fan. The biggest dream of mine was to be an astronaut. The movie Space Odyssey: 2001 from 1968 is one of my favorite movies. Hamilton made a special watch for the character. They made six pieces. None of them has appeared on the market. The watch, even though from 1960s, looks incredibly futuristic. It has a big and special curve. I’d like to have the original one from the movie.

J: Thank you sir. It was a great honor to interview you.

Goldberger: It was fun to chat with you as well. I hope you got what you needed. If you need anything else, let me know and I will send you pictures tonight.

J: Thank you!

Goldberger: Hope to see you in Italy one day. We will have the best smoked salmon in Bologna.

 

 

After hanging up, I was full of excitement. I felt like I got to know this world-class collector and scholar a bit better, but I did not immediately go back and listen to the recording. He is a simple man of great passion. What makes him go after one hobby for his entire life? What makes him the kindest and most respected man in the eyes of each and every collector who shares the passion?

He’s the world’s best collector, probably not because of what he owns, but because of something else. And this something seems to have its place in every man or woman who has an obsession. I haven’t figured out what it is yet, but I’ll keep searching.